Today, Olivia, from our team chats with the director of the Montréal in Common Program and Innovation Advisor for data projects on their approach to developing ambitious but necessary initiatives.
Back in 2019, the city of Montréal was a successful bidder of the Canadian government Smart Cities Challenge. This allowed Montreal to kick off a multi-year multi-project effort to tackle everything from food security to mobility.
Featured government: Montréal, Canada
Episode Guests:
Aldo Rizzi, Program Director – Smart City Innovation Program chez Ville de Montréal
Patrick Lozeau, Advisor in charge of data projects for Montreal in Common
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Lindsay (00:05):
Welcome to the Govlaunch podcast. Govlaunch is the Wiki for local government innovation, and on this podcast, we're sharing the stories of local government innovators and their efforts to build smarter governments. I'm Lindsay Pica-Alfano, co-founder of Govlaunch and your host. Back in 2019, the city of Montreal was a successful bidder of the Canadian government Smart Cities Challenge. This allowed Montreal to kick off a multi-year multi-project effort to tackle everything from food security to mobility. Today, Olivia, from our team chats with the director of the Montreal Common Program and Innovation Advisor for data projects on their approach to developing these ambitious but necessary initiatives.
Olivia (00:52):
Hi, I'm Olivia from Govlaunch, and I'm here with Aldo Rizzi and Patrick Lozeau from the city of Montreal. Can you tell us a bit about yourselves? Aldo, let's start with you.
Aldo Rizzi (01:02):
Yeah. Thank you very much, Olivia. As you mentioned, my name is Aldo Rizzi. I'm the program director for the Montreal in Common, which is really the Montreal signature of the federal government Smart City Challenge.
Olivia (01:17):
Perfect. And Patrick, how about yourself?
Patrick Lozeau (01:20):
Hi. So, uh, Patrick Lozeau, I work with Aldo in the Montreal in Common program. I'm the advisor in charge of data project.
Olivia (01:29):
So it sounds like your work focuses primarily on leading the Smart City program, and I'm, am I right in saying that it is part of the Urban Innovation Lab for the city of Montreal?
Aldo Rizzi (01:40):
It is part of the Montreal Innovation Lab, and really the smart city program called Montreal in Common is really integrated into this innovation lab. And we have a specific team about seven people that really are dedicated just to manage that program, and especially all the projects that are associated with it. There's about 13 projects, large projects with external partners. And this is what really one of our mission in the innovation lab. And basically the rest of the Innovation lab is focused on working to implement an innovation culture within the city of Montreal and other services and department by using different approaches,working, uh, projects across the city that are kind of, uh, unique or need a special attention from a different way of approaching the city of Montreal challenges.Patrick, anything you would like to add?
Patrick Lozeau (02:31):
I'm mostly working on data projects. So we see data as a foundation to all of the projects inside of the program. So we have specific projects that are related to data, so trying to figure out how to visualize data and have a better access, a better understanding of how our city is working. But we also have projects related to data ethics, I would say, where we're trying to help the partners figure out how important their data is and how to better manage it in a context of, uh, internet. I would say the a better understanding from the citizen's point of how their data could be used against them. So we're trying to make sure that our partners are respecting a new data governance policy that was forward, that there be, uh, better understanding from their point of view and how they are going to respect the privacy or, and so on.
Olivia (03:30):
Super helpful context. I might just take us a step back especially for listeners who might not be aware of the Canadian Smart City Challenge. It'd be really good if you could walk us back to the start, tell us what that challenge was from the federal Canadian government and then maybe let us know what the conditions were for Montreal to be successful and for this program to be launched initially.
Aldo Rizzi (03:53):
Well, thank you very much, Olivia. If we go back in time, uh, about 2018, when the government decided, uh, to launch that kind of initiative, if some, some of our listeners remember, there was a lot more international buzz around smart city initiatives around the world. And at that time I think the most of the, the concept of smart city was underpinned under using technology. A lot of people relate smart city to technology, and this is why, you know, the government wanted to, to ensure that there's innovation across Canada and how to leverage technology.So what we did in terms of Montreal is to better assess what what were the great, uh, challenges. We basically, consulted the population and we went different ways, right? We, we have a community of partners. We have a community organization that are entrenched into the borrows. We also have the citizen themselves. So we went and surveyed where people would also live and work and travel. So we went to libraries where the city has many libraries to interview people with questionnaires about, you know, a certain number of topics that we thought were great subjects for building the proposal for the challenge the federal government.
Aldo Rizzi (05:11)
So we look at the entire ecosystem of community organizations, citizens and, and, non-profit organization that really either our focus on certain teams that you mentioned. So with that, we had enough information to create our candidacy, and, and we were not alone. There were several hundreds of municipalities and cities across Canada that participated to the challenge. And the city, Montreal was reelected as one of the fifth, the five finalists for the $50 million price. So basically all the projects that we've submitted were coming from the community.
Olivia (05:46):
That's really exciting. So you had a lot of crowdsourcing that happened to decide those projects, and that means that those projects were submitted and because you were successful, then these are the projects that we're gonna touch on in just a moment. So in terms of beyond the crowdsourcing piece where you're engaging with lots of folks and everyone had their say and you're co-designing these innovation projects with citizens in Montreal. What other conditions do you find were present either in the city of Montreal the team leading this project that allowed for Montreal to be so successful in setting up this urban innovation lab in the first place?
Patrick Lozeau (06:23):
I could probably chip in just to maybe mention that I remember obviously me and Aldo where there were other team members when the, the government announced that we had won the first prize. And we had discussions with the judges after. And the main point that came up was the fact that we had the best view of a connection between the citizen defining what they want from their city. And like Aldo was mentioning that mostly smart cities have been put out as a project where you implement technology inside of the city, and then citizens sort of, sort of like imposed with what the area is given there, but that we had really found a way to go and reach out to the citizen, reach out to small projects that were happening, and that needed maybe that exposure, that leveling up to do a better upgrade to the neighborhoods inside of Montreal. And that had been the focal point of our candidacy industry. And it's still how we're trying to think out our projects is that we're helping to make a better living for the citizens of Montreal with the projects that works for.
Olivia (07:38):
That's great. And, you know, thinking about user needs and starting from there is always a really great approach for any sort of innovation. So congrats. A delayed congrats. I know that was a little while ago on your successful bid, and we're really excited to be delving into the actual projects and what you're working on currently in this space. You've had some time to kick off a lot of these projects. Is there one thing that you've solved or one ask from Montrealers that you've been able to tangibly have a meaningful impact at this stage? I know that not all the projects have wrapped up and there's still lots of work to do, but is there something that you've solved so far?
Aldo Rizzi (08:16)
I just want to mention that the word solve is a big word, right? It, it, it, it
Aldo Rizzi (8:58)
And then underlying, as Patrick mentioned, we use and we leverage data and technology in terms of the integrated mobility. One thing that we're quite proud is in Montreal there are several public transit commission. And one other thing that we did was to foster a project where we, the user would be able, and it, it might sound simple, but what, yeah, when you have four, four Transit commission, having them work together is, is quite a challenge. We have what we call the opus car, which is the card that allows you can recharge, you put your, your tickets on it that you, you can use the, the public transit, which could be the subway, buses and train. What we did, we, in, in our experimental approach, uh, that we've an innovation approach, we work with the, the author,
Aldo Rizzi (10:32)
They were given a special opus card, you know, that would allow that type of functionality. And the result of the pilot was amazing, astonishing. During the three months when we finally finished the experimentation, the survey about these people that used it are 100% or 100% claimed that if this was to be a production service available to all the community, they would embark on it again. So that was kind of a very, very interesting fact, because usually when you do surveys, it always, you know, you cannot please everybody. So at the same times, you know, in
Olivia (11:05)
This case you did though. That's great.
Aldo Rizzi (11:07)
Yeah, it is, but we kind of knew a bit that, that this was going to be a success. The other, what also this on the side spurred was that now that we're working on two, making this more like a available general availability to 2023, because the experiment was successful, it allowed also that something that remained in production for all the users in Montreal was the capability to read with their phone, mobile phone, the card. So they're able now to, to, to interrogate the card through their phones using, you know, I'm gonna sell, you know, technology wises, people know it's nearfield communication, you know, a little that talks wirelessly to the card and able to under to find out what's left on the card because to, you know, the card is just a magnetic card, so what's left, what type of ticket, whatever transit access do I have left? So that's, that's a big plus. That's really is a, is a temp is a small result, but in term of improving quality of life or, you know, better make it convenient for the users, a step in the right direction.
Olivia (12:12):
From a user experience, it's always handy to be able to recharge on the go and not have to go to specific kiosks. But what I'm really intrigued by is that there was an integration with obviously a mobile app. And I know that local governments are always keen to create apps, think about apps for their services. How did you go about designing an app? Did you go externally? Was this skillset in house for you guys at the city of Montreal? What was that app development process like to get you to this really great product that people were very excited about?
Patrick Lozeau (12:42):
The interesting thing with Much Commons that we're working with partners that are part of the community, but also institutional partners. So in this case for the app, the project was lead by the Agile's Mobility here in Montreal. And so we were not necessarily part of the day to day process of creating the app. We're more part of thinking of how we're supporting and how they will come up to create the app. So, um, the experimentation was and I say I was one of those users that was experimenting with the app, and we have to put ourself also in context with Covid. Cause prior to Covid, many of us were used to having a monthly subscription to a bus pass Metro Card, stuff like that.
Patrick Lozeau (13:35):
But with Covid, we obviously are working more from home, so we're spending less of our time in transit. So having that app that would help us recharge the card, but also now we're able to see how many tickets are left on the card, makes it easier. Because if you're gonna spend a week maybe working from home and next week you're saying, Did I still have tickets on that card? Or should I just check with the app now and be able to see it? The agency that was leading the experimentation, did those prior I would say taking UX experimentation to make sure that the app would be working. And when you are using the app, you were able also to give direct feedback to them. So the app would update itself, I would say at least once every two weeks.
Patrick Lozeau (14:24):
Cause they were getting feedback and they were checking. So really on the agile mode of making sure that what we were telling them as a user, they would take it in and make sure that with working, expand going forward. I would say that's the main thing that we need to sort of learn from this, is that you could do a small experimentation on the big project because we have to say the system that's behind those transit cards is managing a ton of money and everything. So doing a small experimentation, being agile on it and think that it could work is a good way of learning how to improve your services.
Olivia (15:08)
Yeah, that's excellent. Very helpful advice. So as two innovators for the city of Montreal, there is an element of potential failure whenever we're doing any sort of experimentation in the realm of innovation. So what's one thing that you've tried within the Montreal in common program that you tried and it didn't quite go according to plan? And what did you learn from that?
Aldo Rizzi (15:32):
I think that mainly things that I would say that things that we try, I think it's part of our dna because we encourage trying and failing. It's, we don't wanna fail, but when we do experimentation, right, we, we have a certain tolerance for not for trying things, aiming at certain objectives and they don't quite materialize. So that's the idea of experimentation because you, you move forward, you reassess the need, you reassess the result. This is quite familiar for people that use an agile approach or a developing solution, is that at one point in time, if you, the outcome that you're hoping, even if you invest time, money to the end will not materialize. You have to take a decision. And we do this regularly, not that we fail, we wanna categorize as failure, but more as learning experience.
Olivia (16:24):
Is there an example?
Aldo Rizzi (16:27):
Well, one of the things that we, we, we did decide was, you know, we, there's a lot of technology. Even we say it's smart city, there's, you know, civic innovation, there's still technology that drives this. And in part of the building certain platform, when you launch an id, and you wanna implement it, I'm talking more about what we did for the mobility data platform is that you start a project, we launched the project and we don't, we, we exactly know what we want to achieve, but at a certain point in time, you have to look around also the environment, you know, that's creating these, any type of platforms, there's always something or somebody that has another platform and decide that there's similar things, right? In the case here of data for mobility, we had one partner that was developing the platform.And what we did is we pushed as far as we could the development of platform. And at one point in time we had to both agree that the return on, on, on investment, you know, continuing further would not bring more, better result. You know, so we decide to stop at one of the version that would be most functional and usable for partners to put data on it and share that information. So, so that's another kind of result that we do, is that we monitor the projects, we look at the objectives, and sometime we have to say, Okay, now it's, it's okay to stop here and rethink and reassess and reengineer as term of failure.
Aldo Rizzi (17:56):
Cuz to be able to set a project as fail is that you have to reach at the end of it and, and then do the postmortem and look at all the results. Did you get the indicators, the KPIs, these performance indicator and also the impact on the population. So like we said, we are in the middle. We're following you these programs and we readjust regularly. So this is really, I think the message that people is that to avoid, to invest time, money, and just wait at the end to the sea, hey, yes, yeah, we made it, we're successful. Reassess regularly that this would avoid these pitfalls. And it makes a lot, also a lot of more people motivated to deliver a solution.
Olivia (18:36):
Yes, it's all about iterating as you go and adapting, uh, continuously it sounds like for, for your projects. We spoke a little bit about a project in the mobility bucket as that was the transit card app. Can we chat maybe about one of your projects in the food security piece? I know that with the rising cost of living, that's top of mind for a lot of politicians at actually all levels of government. So what's one project that you're working on looking to improve resilience in the food security space for Montreal?
Aldo Rizzi (19:06):
Part of the, the food, uh, the food team here, uh, very basic one project we have, it's, uh, it's called
(20:45):
First, it's anonymous. So people that I get the card, we, we don't, we don't get information. They get the card and every month for four months they get the card replenish. Last year there were over a hundred of these cards that were given to families. So it reached over 2000 people, which we quite proud because really it, it, it's really proved that really helped people. And they were 32 community organizations that participated in the program and about eight mark kiosk markets across the borough. So, well, that's one element, on on which, which can be, which can be implement as been implemented very quickly, uh, in terms of, uh, have direct impact on, on the population. The other one, which is more related to, uh, food waste, and it's a little more complex project, but take a longer time, is what we're trying to put in place is regional up in Montreal where we can collect from local producers, I guess that again, you know, fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, fresh fruit to these kind of hubs. And then the hubs, you know, will redistribute to local, to borrows the, what they been, the goods have been collected. And again, working with local communities, local organization, they have lists and they can distribute. So this kind goes to a little more, it expands and it needs infrastructure, right? It needs, warehouses to start to transform the food. So really it's, it's, it's going, it's going after the waste. So basically instead wasting food or, or even promoting local producer, we, we give them a platform, an environment where it's totally integrated with all the community organizations that I have a mission to feed these more vulnerable people.
(22:27)
And again, you know, like any other project, it cannot work if you don't wanna have technology behind it. So there is complete platforms that have been developed to facilitate exchange of information, inventory, even what's available. So these local communities or community organization can go on the platform and say, I need, you know, uh, 10 x number of pounds of carrot, I need x number of pounds of potatoes. So, and, and it's all centralized. So, and it's all based on nonprofit organization, and we're sponsoring the development of the platform, even the infrastructure of these warehousing, even delivery trucks that are shared among these organization. The whole idea is that to make this sustainable for the long term as well.
Olivia (23:10):
Both really exciting projects, and I'm sure you're inspiring lots of our listeners if they're looking to explore some innovation projects in the realm of food security. Shifting gears a little bit, could you describe to our listeners you're both very passionate about innovation and we'd love to hear what your call to action would be for your peers that the city of Montreal, uh, you're very keen to foster an innovative culture within the city. Obviously it already exists to some extent, but what would be your call to action? Why would you say to your peers, working in lots of different areas or service delivery areas at the city of Montreal, what would be your call to action to innovate and why you think it's important? Patrick, maybe let's start with you.
Patrick Lozeau (23:54):
It's, it's gonna be maybe a weird one, but I would say address your fears. I think that the main problem when people are thinking about change or innovation or whatever, is that all people will not respond or people will fear this, I would say. So I would, if you think of those problems, those fears that may be on the road and trying to prove that they don't exist, that you could do a small experimentation, a small project, and show that it did materialize when we were able to see the results, then you could sort like checklist all those fears and proof that you can do some change. You can do some innovation inside of your project, inside of your service, your teams or whatever, and it's those small incremental wins that will provoke it, change in the long run.
Olivia (24:58):
That's really sound advice. Thank you. Aldo anything that you'd like to add?
Aldo Rizzi (25:02):
I think I would just add that, I think there's a lot of, lot of services or colleagues that do some, some innovation. I think that they, they, they don't know it, that they do it. And what we can do is basically help them, because we've been into this journey for many years as part of the smart city challenge. So we are there basically to give example, we're there to coach them. And I think the best call action to remove this kind of fears or barrier about innovation is something that is kind of cryp, kind of cryptic or
Olivia (26:01):
That's great. So things like starting small, also recognizing that innovation comes in lots of different forms. Lastly, what's something that excites you both about the future of civic innovation in Montreal?
Aldo Rizzi (26:16):
Well, what excites me is really like we were given this great opportunity from the federal government, you know the opportunity comes with, with, with funds, which is great. I think it, it, it kind of accelerate our, our thinking about where, how we can innovate and where to target. So that's why I said this is a great opportunity and in the future, really our goal is how the solution, right, that would be coming out in another three years after the end of this program can continue to live, you know, the one that it brings value to the citizen and, you know, either create more, cuz the real objective is that, that what we do here is there's other people can look at it and decide that it's, it makes sense to either reuse some of our solution or think about implementing other solution.But really the, the excitement part for us is that we are working on a path where everything we design with our partners is going to be a openly open for other cities in Canada or the world because this is really what we can, you know, create, disseminate what we we do. And this is really what's the part, the exciting part of it is that people do not want to do just a project and have a start and an end. They're looking beyond that. And this is really the exciting part is that we have wide open after this program to initiate with other organization, how can this be a sustainable project or program.
Olivia (27:52):
Yeah. Keep that momentum going. Absolutely. How about yourself, Patrick?
Patrick Lozeau (28:00):
I would say anything related to the ecological transition, anything related to people realizing that climate crisis is really not something in the future. It's happening right now and I'm seeing a lot of projects that are happening, uh, either from the sim Montreal or even big corporations. And I've been seeing a lot more of a conscious reaction. And I think that citizens are asking corporations, cities anything that's happening around them that there'd be more of a focus around the impact on the environment. And to me that's probably the next phase of where we're going is that we need to think everything around what's gonna be the impact on our planet and make sure that we, we leave a, a better place for the future.
Olivia (28:52):
Yeah, it's a really great note to end on the intersection of the ecological transition, as you said, and innovation and of course the important role that cities play in that space. There's lots to be done, but there's also really great momentum on that front. We're looking forward to seeing many more cities creating their very own innovation labs and suite of innovation projects. Thank you so much for joining us today, Aldo and Patrick.
Patrick Lozeau (29:16):
Thanks for you.
Aldo Rizzi (29:18):
Thank you.
Lindsay (29:21):
I'm Lindsay Pica-Alfano and this podcast was produced by Govlaunch, the Wiki for local government innovation. You can subscribe to hear more stories like this wherever you get your podcast. If you're a local government innovator, we hope you'll help us on our mission to build the largest free resource for local governments globally. You can join to search and contribute to the wiki@govlaunch.com. Thanks for tuning in, we hope to see you next time on the Govlaunch podcast.