In this episode, Olivia is joined by Siddy Holloway who is Hidden London Engagement Manager for London Transport Museum and presenter of Secrets of the London Underground. She details how London is sharing its public transit stories and highlighting the topic of mobility.
Siddy Holloway's work is centered around getting the public engaged in mobility through various forms of creative storytelling. With London being home to the world’s oldest underground transit network there is a lot of history and knowledge to reveal. Learn more about how London is sharing its public transit stories and how you may be able to engage with your community on the topic of mobility.
Featured government: Transport for London (Transport Authority for the city of London, UK)
Episode guests: Siddy Holloway, Engagement Manager at the London Transport Museum and co-presenter of UKTV's 'Secrets of the London Underground'
Visit govlaunch.com for more stories and examples of local government innovation.
Lindsay: (00:05)
Welcome to the Govlaunch podcast. Govlaunch is the Wiki for local government innovation and on this podcast, we're sharing the stories of local government innovators and their efforts to build smarter governments. I'm Lindsay Pica-Alfano, co-founder of Govlaunch and your host. Today, Olivia is joined by Siddy Holloway who's Hidden London Engagement Manager for London Transport Museum, and presenter of secrets of the London Underground. Her work is centered around getting the public engaged in mobility through various forms of creative storytelling. And with London being home to the world's oldest underground transit network, there's a lot of history and knowledge to share. I'll turn now to Olivia to learn more about how London is sharing its public transit stories and how you may be able to engage with your community on the topic of mobility.
Olivia: (00:59)
Hi, I'm Olivia from Govlaunch and I'm here with Siddy Holloway from London's Transport Museum. Siddy, Tell us a little about yourself.
Siddy: (01:06)
So I'm Siddy Holloway, everyone. I'm the engagement manager for a program called Hidden London at the London transport museum. And now the London transport museum is the charitable arm of transport for London, which the transport authority I for the entire city of London. So anything from the underground to the overground, to the buses, the cab hires, even the roads tolls, et cetera, all comes under transport for London and we preserve its history and its impact on the city.
Olivia: (01:38)
That's really exciting. So getting folks to care about transportation and mobility in their cities, to some extent.
Siddy: (01:44)
Yeah, I mean, I think in a city, well, in some ways in a city like London, it's a little bit, I guess, very synonymous with the city because we have such an old transport network. We have the oldest underground in the world with some of the oldest parts of the world that got buses for the public. And really, I think, you know, when people think of London, they kind of think of particularly the underground, you know, you think of the tube and you think of those iconic design features and all of that with London. So, but so in many ways we have a slightly easier job of getting people excited about transport, just because of the antiquity of our system. But it's really important though, to keep people excited about their environment and what they're using on a day to day basis and why it's important that they keep using it and why it's important to invest in it, that sort of thing. So we do that at the museum essentially.
Olivia: (02:38)
So you mentioned this in your answer, that the way we move in our cities has a tremendous impact on how we live, work and even play in our cities. How does your teams work at the London Transport Museum, really encourage lenders to care and learn about their transit systems and really the impact of their experience navigating their cities. Can you give us some examples of what your team does?
Siddy: (02:58)
We have several brilliant teams at the museum that do different things. So as I said before, I'm the engagement manager for a program called hidden London, which is largely aimed at adults. And what we do is we take people into disused parts of the London underground. So we take people into disused, underground stations, into parts of the underground that have become disused, although connected to existing stations. And we tried to educate and kind of enthrall people by taking them into these spaces that they would never get a chance to go into otherwise. And using these places to tell the history of, of the network of the people that built it, of the people that use it or have used it, the decisions that were made, how socioeconomics and all of that of the 20th century impacted the system that we have today.
Siddy: (03:51)
So what, what my team largely does is take people on these tours around, around parts that are out on the network. So, you know, disuse stations, parts of a disuse station, parts of the bits that we all think sometimes as we're traveling through London of like, okay, that seems like a strange door, surely there's something beyond it. Or, you know, you kind of think, well, the Underground's 158 years old. There must be some, you know, secret parts to it. There must be something beyond what the normal passengers get to see. And there is. So my team does that and it's a brilliant way to get people, to connect with the system in a different way, because it's very visceral. You get to actually go through that door and experience it and see it. And by talking about the progress and showing, you know, why something potentially falls by the wayside, why certain stations close, why certain parts of stations close, you get to explain to people the organic kind of growth of both the city and the network.
Siddy: (04:59)
And that also explains sometimes why we have difficulties today. You know, because if you've got a system that's as old as ours, sometimes, you know, you'll have engineering closures and it'll be really hot on the central line in July. And it will sometimes be a signal failure. And sometimes we do have, you know, and you give them this context of what's happening. I think it really makes people not just tolerant towards it, but to, to have kind of almost like a sense of ownership of it and a love of it, which is different than just to kind of that you have to yet tolerate it or whatnot. And then there are other parts of the museum that I work with. Sometimes we've got a learning department that deals with a lot of young children or young adults prepping them for careers in stem, prepping them for careers in the transport railway industry and, and do lots of outreach programs all across the city, all across the UK. And then of course, then we have, you know, our curatorial departments that actually manage the collection and decide what to take in and that sort of thing. And so the really varied operation that we have at the museum, but mine is, is largely geared towards the adult population.
Olivia: (06:21)
Fantastic. So what is your favorite disuse station and why Siddy?
Siddy: (06:26)
It's such a hard question because I mean, so my, what I do is I, I research and write all, all of the tours. And so when, as you, as you'll know, when you're going into like a research, a specific thing, you just delve completely into it and you become sort of slightly obsessed with that particular subject and you wanna find out absolutely everything you can. So I would say it at almost every point that I've written each different station tour. That station has been my favorite for that period. I'd say so afterwards, it's always hard to go. They're all, you know, they're all like my little children. I think they've all got something very charming and different about them. I would say the one that kind of shocks people, I guess the most is down street, which is a disuse station between Hyde park corner and green park on the Piccadilly line.
Siddy: (07:24)
That is just an extraordinary place because it closes in 1932 because of lack of patronage. And then it gets reused as a secret government bunker for the railway executive committee during the second world war. And so all of the offices, the dormitories, the kitchen, the mess room, everything is still down there. We can actually take people through that, which I think just is, it's so rare, you know, in a place like London, things get swept away pretty quickly in the March of progress, but for these kind of pockets of history to be preserved beneath our feet is exciting. So I think down street is probably the one that people kind of find most, I dunno, yeah. Kind of jarring or exciting, or kind of slightly mind blown. Another favorite of minus Charing cross because Charing, cross people travel through it every single day, but there is a part of Charing cross that's been close since 1999, cuz the Jubilee line used to terminate there.
Siddy: (08:24)
And, and so the platforms look pretty modern. I mean they kind of look like other parts of the network, but by taking people out, you get the, it's a, it's a newer part of the network that you're explaining, you're explaining, well, you know, why would you leave something like this behind, you're talking about funding, you're talking about, you know, where, you know, the Jubilee line in particular had to divert in order to serve a particular part of London, which wasn't the plan in the seventies. So it brings a lot of different subjects into it and it's a film set. So that's really exciting for people.
Olivia: (09:00)
So speaking of film and TV, your TV show secrets of the London underground has made a lot of folks generally interested in their public transit and has received a lot of praise, not dissimilar to the great work that you do with hidden London's program at the London transfer museum. Tell us more about the intent and how this innovative approach has allowed for better engagement with the public and to really achieve that overarching mission that is very evident in your career around getting folks to care and be interested in their transport or in the mobility sector, in the cities that they live in.
Siddy: (09:35)
So yeah, the show's been incredibly popular. Thank, thank God for that. We're super proud of it, but it, it came about in a really sort of slightly unexpected way. So I'm originally an actor. I came to London 12 years ago from Iceland and, and I to study acting. And I think honestly, part of the love I have for transport and for public transport in particular and, and just the infrastructure around it stems from the fact that I didn't grow up with anything like that. So I think often when you don't have it, and then you move to a place that does have it, it slightly blows your mind and you become a little bit overly fascinated with it because it's something it's a luxury you never had growing up. Right? So I'm an actor originally. I started working for the museum seven years ago, doing the hidden London program.
Siddy: (10:26)
And in that time I've written 10 different tours. We wrote a book in 2019 that was published by Yale university press. We did an exhibition on the subject at the museum for those who potentially wanted to explore the subject matter a bit wider, but had perhaps mobility issues or had young children that they wanted to bring or anything like that. And so I think we were kind of looking for what was next, you know, what, what, what was the next thing we could do? Because I always knew from the start of this program, that people would be excited about this. If you just got the reach to show them because it is inherently exciting, everyone loves secrets. Everyone loves like tunnels. They're not supposed to go down. I dunno, I think this is something super like EV all most human beings feel that for some reason, you know, we, we just wanna know what, what lies beyond places were not supposed to go in.
Siddy: (11:25)
And so I was a guest in my co-presenters show called architecture. The railways builds in 2019 and that collaboration just was so easy and brilliant, and we just kind of worked so well together on, on screen. And so I spoke to the executive producer afterwards and said, look, I think maybe there's a show about, you know, hidden London or the secrets of the, of the underground. And, and, you know, there have been plenty of programs in the past that talk about London's transport network. I mean, it's a subject matter. That's been, you know, that has been covered quite extensively. But the difference in the way we make this show is that obviously we're in, we are transport for London or we are it's museum. So we have access beyond what normal film companies can have because, well, we are the entity. So we can really delve deep into places which have just been, you know, touched on the surface before and give people a true behind the scenes kind of access.
Siddy: (12:36)
And by doing so you kind of are fostering a love for the, for the network because you are, you are teaching people about its history, but also we're doing it in a way that is exciting, exploratory fun, you know, it's, we try to make it as, you know, not, not as well, less dry let's say than the subject can sometimes be, cuz it has a bad reputation of being slightly niche boring or you know, slightly nerdy, which it isn't, it totally isn't. It completely touches all of our lives on a day to day basis and is fundamental with living in a big city. But there is like that stigma of like trains or railways being really boring. So by what, what we've done in the show is make it more accessible by talking about loads of different themes, not just, you know, the engineering or the trains or the time tabling or whatnot, but kind of bringing more humanity to it, more human stories,
Olivia: (13:40)
Very inspiring. So it seems like your work is across lots of different mediums. You mentioned books, programs, tours, as well as the TV show secrets of London underground. So through these different mediums, how do these approaches reach or don't reach certain audiences?
Siddy: (13:59)
I mean, I think they, I mean the, they all touch on a different way. So for example, the tours, the tours, because we're bringing people in to just use parts of the underground. There is a limit to who can go on them simply because many of these sites are, they have big spiral staircases down to them, which means that those ha they have mobility issues. They'm not gonna be able to go into them or we have to have an age limit, for example, because very young children just would not be advisable to bring into some of those spaces. So, you know, the tours have a certain kind of market to them, but then, you know, a book does something that a tour does cannot, which is long form information because a talk has to be 75 to 90 minutes. You've only got an audience for about 90 minutes.
Siddy: (14:50)
Plus, you know, people are standing on their feet and they can get tired or whatever, and you have to read your audience constantly to go, have I got them, have I I'm still gonna lose them. So it's a dialogue, a book I would say is a long form conversation with your reader and you can pass on much more information in a more detailed fashion in a book and people can take their own time with it. So it's, it definitely has in the realm because often people talk about how books kind of have they been superseded by the internet? I don't think so. I think people have a real love for having a book in their hands and being able to take in information at their own pace and then TV series. I think we have, we have a TV series and we have a YouTube series.
Siddy: (15:35)
That's like a YouTube and a podcast. And the podcast for example, is a lot looser formatted than say a TV series. The TV series is because it's just conversational between myself and three others. We do go on site and try to make it more of a program, but it's more about kind of engaging with the community. And then I'd say a TV series. What that does is it allows you to curate your narrative in a different way than you could in a, a tour or because you are controlling everything. The audience sees every shot that you're using, everything you're pointing out. You can point the camera at it and show them that, show them this and show them that. So it, it, they all have a place I would say, but they each touch upon different parts. I would say
Olivia: (16:34)
Shifting gears, public transit, as we both know, plays a huge role in the fight against climate change. Mm-hmm with regards to some of the exhibits and research that you've curated, how has the net zero agenda impacted the public's perception of public transit?
Siddy: (16:51)
I mean, it's a huge, huge thing. And I think it's some, it's something that I'm personally extremely passionate about and something that I think about every time I'm writing anything or anytime I'm going speaking publicly or anything like that is that public transport is one of the best ways that we can reduce our impact on the climate crisis and particular in London, if you've got the option of getting on the tube, for example, or getting O in your car, a car, it should really be a no brainer because what, what, what our job is as historians and people that work in interpreting this is to make people understand the impact that, that say a personal car has as opposed to say, using the tube or whatnot. And I think people are realizing that I think people are understanding that that infrastructure investing is so important to, to get on the trains and to use the buses rather than to, to use their own car.
Siddy: (17:50)
But I do think that, you know, we still have a while to go in order to entice people completely on that simply from convenience sake or for, you know, I mean, even after the, the pandemic, some people still feel reticent and using public transport simply for the proximity of other people. So I do think it's, it's hugely important. And I mean, in some of the tools that I, oh, well, the tools that I've written, I always talk about the fact that using tra public transport is, is paramount. And simply by getting on the, on the tube, what the tube does because it's run by electricity. It reuses the electricity that it, that powers the trade. So it's actually the, the most carbon effective way you can travel through London is by using the tube because it recycles it's power constantly. And we've done a new kind of climate exhibition at the museum, which opened last year called London 2030, which is to look forwards to 2030 and see what potential solutions might we have in the city in eight years time. And what will we need to do today in order to get there. So I think it's a developing subject, but it's definitely people like me and, and people at the museum, it is we, we do feel it's our job to bring that information to people, to help them make those choices. Because I think when somebody explains it to you like that, particularly like when somebody told me that thing about the tube, when I found that out, I was like, oh really? Wow. Like I should be getting on the tube all the time. So yeah,
Olivia: (19:32)
If we were to wind up the scope of this approach that you and your team have around communicating through lots of different creative mediums, and we thought about all service delivery areas of the local government, what are some of the ways that you think local governments could get creative with when it comes to storytelling and to get residents curious and interested in their ongoing work beyond just transit? Hmm.
Siddy: (19:56)
I think you, one of the things I always do in, in both my work and just in my personal life, is that, I mean, I'm a, I'm probably gonna be a lifelong tour guide, right? I it's one of the most exciting things I think about going through London or going through the UK is to really like, try to look carefully at where you are, what you are going and, and where you, because so much of today's day to day is through a smartphone. We are constantly looking down, not looking around us and not appreciating kind of both history and, and what, what is happening around us. So in any way that local, you know, if local government can make it exciting for people to spot details in their own surroundings, I think that's something there's something there, you know, because we've really seen with our program of once we started telling people about why some of these places and why the underground is actually brilliant.
Siddy: (21:00)
They started thinking that too. And so I think local government could be good at highlighting both what they're doing, but also what is there already, how it benefits the community? I always like things like little Easter eggs or something just to pull people's focus. I mean, there's lots of, I mean, there's so many ways you could do this and by no means, am I like any marketing juniors, but my thing is always, I think people are, are, are readier than you think to, to jump onto your idea. You just have to convince them that it's really, really cool and convincing people of, of things being really cool. Isn't that hard? You just have to think it's cool yourself. First.
Olivia: (21:47)
I love that. And as someone who already thinks that transit is very cool, I concur with that, with that sentiment, in terms of other either transit agencies that you know about, or even local government more widely, do you know of any other standout innovations that we should check out? In other words, what other cities or transit agencies are doing cool, as you mentioned work right now? Mm
Siddy: (22:12)
Well, there's of pals over in New York at the New York transit museum. They do some really great work and they're building up their base there. And, and they're telling, I mean, again, what a brilliant city of, of talking about the, you know, the transit system and how it's evolved and changed. You know, the New York subway is iconic around the world. There are several transport museums around the world. I would say there is, I have actually got a favorite transport network in the world that outside of London, obviously, obviously London's my favorite.
Siddy: (22:45)
I would say the stock home underground is one of my absolute favorites because the efficiency of that system is trumped only by the fact that its stations look like kind of magical Aladin's caves or something because of the way they're constructed. And because each station has got like a theme to it. So, you know, they've got different colors and themes and not often related to that particular area or that particular stop. And I think that's a brilliant example of taking something utilitarian as a train station and making it into an adventure. So the Stockholm transport network, I think, is one of my favorites.
Olivia: (23:35)
Thanks for sharing that your passion for encouraging folks to care and learn about their public transit infrastructure is evident. What advice would you share to transit agencies listening to this episode that might be looking to share their own stories through bold mediums, such as TV, potentially books, where, where to begin?
Siddy: (23:54)
Oh, that's a good question. I would say let it, you know, let it lead you. The thing that I always start with when I'm say writing a new tour or something is I will sort of gather what I know about the site. Like what are the things that I know about this place, and then try to kind of throw that out a little bit and go deep into trying to think of a different angle than I already know of it. So what are the secrets that, that I can find out about it? And I would always say transportation is about the people using it. Not necessarily the people that built it, although that's important too. It's always about the people behind it. There are a lot of people that are train spotters and love seeing that Loco, or they're seeing that class 9 47, 5 or whatnot.
Siddy: (24:50)
And that's a brilliant hobby, but I think by and large transport is about people because it transports people. So focus on the human element, explain why it's so important that you do what you do and why it should be something that all of us love. It's a community. You know, we, we get to be a part of this community. So focus on the human element, try to find a different angle on it and have fun with it, make it something that doesn't have to be dry and boring because it's not human beings are really fascinating, especially, you know, telling their stories is it should be exciting.
Olivia: (25:30)
Absolutely. As someone who's been on one of your tourist city, I can certainly say that you put the fun and transportation. Lastly, what's something that excites you about the future of civic innovation broadly speaking in London.
Siddy: (25:43)
Oh, we've got great stuff coming up. Now that's been, you know, the, the culmination of decades work and thousands of people. So we've got the Elizabeth line is gonna be opening up this year. That, well, at a time it was Europe's biggest transportation project and employed thousands and thousands of people that I'm looking forward to just because, and I've been to some of the stations and, and been on the train. And I think because I personally haven't lived through that upgrade of a city. That's that like that step up of a city that hasn't happened. This I'd say this century, although we've had some new stations open, I'm just looking forward to seeing how it's gonna change London, because it, it will, it will change the way we travel through London. It will change just how long it'll take you from going one side of the city to the other.
Siddy: (26:38)
So the Elizabeth line I'm looking forward to high speed. Two is gonna be really interesting and it's gonna really unlock the north into London, that intercity link, plus it, it, I I'm sure it's just gonna look gorgeous and hopefully the innovations that are changing within the rail industry, making it more accessible, affordable for not just Londoners, but for the rest of the country. I mean, I really hope that especially, you know, what we're seeing in today with, you know, fossil fuel resources being scarce and just the, the intense need that we can feel right now for alternative energies and for renewable energies and all that. I hope it makes people realize that investing in public transport infrastructure is one of the best ways we can steer clear of, of crises like that in the future.
Olivia: (27:32)
Well, lots of exciting things in the pipeline for London. Mm-hmm thank you for sharing. And we're looking forward to more cities, more transit agencies, getting creative with their own storytelling and sharing their stories. Thanks for joining us Citi.
Siddy: (27:47)
Oh, thank you so much for having me so fun to, to come on.
Lindsay: (27:57)
I'm Lindsay Pica-Alfano and this podcast was produced by Govlaunch the Wiki for local government innovation. You can subscribe to hear more stories like this, wherever you get your podcast. If you're a local government innovator, we hope you'll help us on our mission to build the largest free resource for local governments globally. You can join to search and contribute to the wiki at govlaunch.com. Thanks for tuning in. We hope to see you next time on the Govlaunch podcast.