In this episode, Olivia meets with Caroline Brouillette, National Policy Manager for Climate Action Network Canada, to discuss their bold climate change agenda across the country.
As countries focus their efforts on reducing their impact on the environment and cutting back their emissions, cities are an integral part of the solution. Olivia and Caroline dive into what cities are doing and what's still left to be done.
Episode guests: Caroline Brouillette, National Policy Manager for Climate Action Network Canada.
Visit govlaunch.com for more stories and examples of local government innovation.
Lindsay: (00:05)
Welcome to the Govlaunch podcast. Govlaunch is the Wiki for local government innovation and on this podcast, we're sharing the stories of local government innovators and their efforts to build smarter governments. I'm Lindsay Pica-Alfano, co-founder of Govaunch and your host. Today, Olivia meets with national policy manager for Climate Action Network Canada, with a bold climate change agenda across the country. As countries focus their efforts on reducing their impact on the environment and cutting back their emissions. Cities are an integral part of the solution, and they're already doing a lot. I'll turn now to Olivia to dive into this topic and learn more about what cities are doing and what's still left to be done.
Olivia: (00:49)
Hi, I'm Olivia from Govlaunch and I'm here with Caro Brouillette from climate action network Canada. Caro, tell us a little about yourself.
Caro: (00:57)
Hi, Olivia. So happy to join you this morning from Unceded Kanien'kehá:ka territory, or what is commonly known as Montreal. Um, I'm the national policy manager at climate action network, Canada, which is Canada's broadest and largest network of organizations who work together on climate change and energy issues. Our members are super diversified. So we work not only with environmental non-government organizations, but also, indigenous groups as well as labor unions. All the largest Canadian labor unions are part of our network. So we really, um, are this kind of big tent coalition and my work focuses on national level policy.
Olivia: (01:41)
Thanks for that. So your work focuses primarily on climate policy, advocacy and development. Can you describe to our listeners what that looks like in practice?
Caro: (01:53)
Sending lots of emails. Um, whose job doesn't look like that? But, uh, jokes aside because we work as a network, I spend most of my time working with our amazing members and allies to develop common positions and build relationships and then work to kind of bring these recommendations forward to influence government, to make sure that they do what is needed, in terms of Canada's role and responsibilities in the face of the climate crisis. And then,I do interviews like these, podcast episodes, but also media to make sure that the Canadian public is kept in the loop of what we're up to.
Olivia: (02:35)
So before we delve into the role of cities and climate change, can you tell our listeners, what are some of your stakeholder engagement strategies since you have such a wide pool of folks that you're engaging with on a regular basis, what are some tactics that you use to really engage with the wider Canadian public?
Caro: (02:55)
Um, I guess one of the key services we offer to our members is a wide array of, of calls that intend not only to give updates to, our community on different developments that are happening not only at the national level, but because our membership is really based from coast to coast to coast in Canada, we want folks to come and tell us and share with others, what's happening all over the country and that ways they can create connections, learn best practices across jurisdiction levels. We also have calls which are more focused on creating common ground and discussing common strategies. So I, I think this, I mean, it's not really a secret it, but the really how I would describe my work, um, as most simple is really building relationships and connections, across different constituencies. Climate Action Network Canada really aims to, um, the national level conversations with other conversations that are happening at the local community level at the grassroots level. So we do in addition to, engage with, national policy makers work with amazing, um, folks who work at the city level across the country.
Olivia: (04:13)
That's a great segue because when we think of the challenges that we're faced with in the realm of climate change, it's evident that cities play a huge role. During your time in this realm, how have you seen cities evolve and their role evolve when it comes to climate change justice?
Caro: (04:31)
So maybe I'll start with the disclaimer that I haven't been in this space for a long time. So, um, I, I won't have a long historic view. Um, however, I think it's really clear that cities are playing more and more a role of influence of not only the provincial, but the national and international agenda. And that's because cities are responsible for 75% of global CO2 emissions because there's a high concentration of population in cities and they have very concrete tools at their disposal that connect with citizens very closely, more than a provincial or, or federal government would connect. It's always a little bit further from the lives of folks. And so cities are taking that leadership not only at a policy level, but I think at the more politics and citizen level, there's a realization that, this city level action is what affects folks most closely, um, in their daily life. And we really saw this during the last Montreal election, there was what columnists call a green wave where a high number, not only of mayors, but local counselors ran on platforms focusing on addressing the climate and environmental crises.
Olivia: (05:50)
So you've mentioned that you've noticed cities increasing their influence at many levels, different levels of government. Can you give us some examples of cities taking a bold stance sometimes even at odds with their national counterparts?
Caro: (06:05)
Yeah, I think the most well known example is when president Trump got out of the Paris agreement, a coalition of US states, cities, counties, businesses who represent a large part of US emissions and, and population vowed together to uphold climate action in a coalition called we are still in that included almost 300 cities and counties across the US. And I think that the message to get from that is that of course, some crucial and important policy happens at national level, but cities have a lot of levers at their disposal to actually reduce emissions and adapt to the climate crisis.
Caro: (06:50)
Similarly, there's this coalition called C40 cities, that's 97 cities around the world. They represent 1/12th of the world population and one quarter of the global economy. So what they do is they not come together to share best practice and set themselves some objectives to raise their own climate ambition and action, but they also play a clear role in influencing the global agenda. They were very present at cop 26 in November. And then the last example I I'll give where cities are, are clear a little bit ahead of the curve of state level and, national level governments is, on, on fossil fuels., so I don't know if you've heard of the fossil nonproliferation treaty, which is kind of modeled on the nuclear proliferation, the anti-nuclear proliferation treaty. We know that burning fossil fuels is what causes, um, greenhouse gas emission ands are climate. So the first stop is to stop pouring literal fuel on the fire and cities have been signing this treaty Toronto, Vancouver, and really hoping Montreal will be next.
Caro: (08:02)
But cities are playing this role because I guess the political argument for them is perhaps a little less difficult and complex than state and federal governments are finding it. Local governments are, their action is connected to people's daily lives and lived experience closer, and higher levels of jurisdiction will be, and that allows them to connect and take these bold stances, um, faster than other levels of government.
Olivia: (08:34)
That's very inspiring and thanks for sharing all those rich examples. Now that we've set the stage, Caro, can you tell us something that is tangible that local governments can do right now to help fight climate change?
Caro: (08:47)
The first thing to look at when a given jurisdiction wants to reduce its emission is to look at the pie of where those emissions are currently happening. And for most cities in North America, um, the bulk of these emissions right now are focused in the transportation sector. The second sector I would say, is building. So that includes residential, commercial and institutional. And then depending on the industrial fabric of a given locality, you'll have some level of industrial emissions as well, and then waste. So if we look at that transportation slice of the pie, there's so many things cities can do. Um, cities can help citizens reduce the amount of kilometers they have to travel every day to, you know, go work, go to school, do their errands. The Paris me mayor has recently popularized the concept of the 15 minute city, so that you have all the, the, not only the commerces, but the services you need in your neighbor and that you can walk conveniently there.
Caro: (09:52)
Cities can also contribute to that model shift from solo driving, um, which by the way, is one of the things that make most people happiest is the amount of time they spend in traffic. So by making active transportation and collective transit more attractive, they're contributing to that model shift. And we've, we've seen here in Montreal, a huge increase in the supply of safe biking infrastructure that have driven, helped people make that shift. And then finally,making sure that the cars that are on the road are electrified, especially in a Quebec context where our electricity is 99.8% renewable. It really makes sense that those people who don't have the choice to drive, drive, electric and cities can help that, by deploying, charging infrastructure. We've also heard that Montreal will deploy a zero emissions zone downtown, which I think will be restricted to zero emission vehicles. So that's on the transportation side, on the building side, another example, we're seeing a lot of cities, especially in the US do this is, put some regulation around new buildings and whether they can, include some fossil based heating. So a lot of cities are planning new construction from including gas or oil, heating. And actually that's not only a benefit for the environment, right? It's a lot healthier for people in their houses to have heating that is electric.
Olivia: (11:30)
Thanks for sharing those great examples in both transportation and in the building sector for local governments. Cities are also looking to innovate in other areas as well as you well know when it comes to climate change. So thinking about perhaps how they manage waste, what creative steps have you seen cities take to promote a more sustainable approach in this area?
Caro: (11:49)
Yeah, that's an important sector. Not only because waste has an impact on emissions, but also,because of the other health and environmental justice impacts for instance, in Montreal, there's this recycling facility in Kanehsatake and it's kind of been localized on this indigenous community, even though it's been reported to contain toxic waste without permits or pro precautions to prevent village into this community. So a really important sector, in terms of climate policy sometimes, it's about doing the hard things. I'll quote our former environment minister, Catherine McKenna, hard things are hard. and that really is the case for Ecofiscal measures, right? Like taxing these environmental externalities so that it's not free to pollute and that,we follow the polluter pays principle. And so in San Francisco, they tax waste by weight and by category type of rate, whether it's recycling or compost, and that has been very successful but the issue with pricing environmental wrongs is the political challenge, but it's the right thing to do. And so we need political leadership.
Olivia: (13:04)
So another key success factor for a city to be successful in the fight against climate change. To your point, politics has a huge impact on this. What is your advice for local governments looking to improve relationships with different levels of government, especially when it comes to the topic of climate change?
Caro: (13:22)
A few ideas. So the first one is that, while this level of collaboration is really important, each level of jurisdiction, whether it's municipal state level or national level, or even international in the face of a crisis that is so huge, so complex that affects absolutely every sector of our economy, every aspect of our society, each jurisdictions has to crank the levers at their disposal to the max. so that's the first point I would make. The second is that, well, something that doesn't necessarily work to a city's advantage is that the money comes from, uh, a, their levels of government. and one example of not only cross jurisdiction collaboration, but, um, collaboration across cities that we've seen is, for Quebec city, uh, tramway. Quebec city is the only city in North America that doesn't, that still does and has a structuring transit system.
Caro: (14:22)
And so they were looking for funding from the federal government, but didn't get to the amounts needed. So, the City of Montreal Mayor Valerie Plante collaborated with Mayor Regis Labeaume some of the proportion of funding that was reserved to Montreal, to Quebec city, so that they could get their tramway system. So that was a really beautiful and inspiring example of cross jurisdiction, but also cross city collaboration. Maybe one last point I'll add is that one thing we see in Canada is communities of practice between elected officials at the local level. There's this amazing group called Climate Caucus of local officials who are elected who really want to do something to combat the climate crisis. And so they share their experiences, um, some best practices, and they also come together with some joint to try to influence the conversation.they're really cool. Folks should check them out. Climate caucus.
Olivia: (15:26)
Exciting. So the key to success is not just about thinking of collaborating with national counterparts, but you've emphasized how important it is for cities to find ways of actually coming together, especially when it comes to climate change issues. Shifting gears a bit, something that's always top of mind for local governments is thinking about the impact, the budget, the cost of some of these initiatives. As someone who has seen several climate change interventions throughout your career being implemented in different spaces, How do folks typically measure the impact of these types of interventions?
Caro: (16:00)
Yeah, that's a question that is really timely at all levels of government. I would say climate governance, it's such an important piece of ensuring that we're able to actually deliver those emissions reductions, which is, um, unfortunately quite difficult to do. Historically, for instance, Canada has missed every target it has ever set for itself. And their reason for that is not because they weren't the right targets. It was a governance failure. And so there are tools that other jurisdictions have. I'm thinking of the UK climate change act, Canada adopted this summer and net zero emissions accountability act. And these tools that are in these legislations can be applied at the municipal level as well. So it is important to make sure that we have mechanisms across all departments of an administration to make sure that measures that are implemented are coherent with the climate objectives and that decisions are not taken in silos.
Caro: (17:01)
So what, what the city of Montreal,has done is set for itself, carbon budgets that define and I think they're in the process of actually defining the amount of megatons they can emit over a given amount of time. And then with that, they also have a climate test that they will evaluate each decision against to see what's the impact of this new infrastructure in terms of greenhouse gas emissions, does it fit with our carbon budget? So it's a little bit using these tools of financial planning, not only at the government level, but also it, if I wanna save money, it's a lot easier if I know how much I have in my bank account. And if I assess each of my decisions against that amount, rather than give myself a vague target in the future to reduce my spending by 50% by 2030, if I do that, there's a good chance that I won't, I won't get there.
Olivia: (18:00)
Caro, Your passion for supporting the long overdue transition to a green economy is super evident. What advice would you share to local governments looking to increase a cultural awareness of climate change? Just generally speaking?
Caro: (18:12)
Thanks. I think we're at a stage where the issue is not so much awareness, but rather implementation and those coherence and, and governance challenges that I mentioned earlier, there's also a real political buy-in, where some measures might be put forward that are ambitious, that would reduce emissions, but then,not all, counselors will vote in their favor. I'm thinking of recently in Vancouver where council defeated a proposed $45 yearly residential street parking fee covering the entire city because parking is this kind of fascinating way that we don't is kind of a hidden way of subsidizing driving.and so I think the making the political case is something we need to think of at the same time as policies are developed, right. It's not only sometimes a case of doing the right thing, but having the political case and strategy behind its adoption.
Caro: (19:16)
I am one thing I'm thinking of in Scandinavian countries where, when they have these kind of more difficult measures that they wanna pass, like in Stockholm, they wanted to implement this congestion pricing is that they, there was a trial period before referendum. The thing with these types of measures is that once people see the huge impact and positive impact it has on their daily lives, there's less traffic, they spend more time not stuck in traffic, it's easier for them to get around. They actually support them. but it's always the kind of anticipation before and the way they're framed, politically that discourage people and elected officials from implementing them. So having trial periods, I think is a good political strategy.
Olivia: (20:06)
Let's turn all parking lots into city parks is what I would say on that topic. A really interesting example especially around the piece that parking in some ways can be a bit of a secret subsidization for driving. That's an interesting point that you raised. Lastly, what's something that excites you about the future of civic innovation in cities across Canada, Caro.
Caro: (20:33)
I think as we've discussed throughout this convo, cities really connect with citizens' daily lives and lives lived experience um, closer to any other level of governance. And I think that's where there's a huge potential, not only for, for climate action, but for folks to see the positive cobes of, of climate action.so there's this huge opportunity for political leadership for local leaders to rethink the place of governments to be at the front row of what is not only an environmental transformation, but also a social equality of life and a justice centered transformation. the quality of life benefits of climate action, like more green spaces,, cleaner air, and better health, good quality local jobs. These are all felt at the local level. So there's huge potential for cities to take the lead there and to show people, what it means to live in a not only a greener, but a fairer and a happier community
Olivia: (21:42)
Well we're looking forward to seeing more cities, continuing their great influence for a better and more sustainable future. Thanks for joining us, Caro.
Caro: (21:49)
My pleasure.
Lindsay: (21:55)
I'm Lindsay Pica Alfano and this podcast was produced by Govlaunch the Wiki for local government innovation. You can subscribe to hear more stories like this, wherever you get your podcast. If you're a local government innovator, we hope you'll help us on our mission to build the largest free resource for local governments globally. You can join to search and contribute to the wiki@govlaunch.com. Thanks for tuning in. We hope to see you next time on the Govlaunch podcast.