Michael Baskin who leads innovation for Montgomery County, Maryland shares how they’re building, what he calls, a more human government.
As we work with our community of local governments to build the largest free innovation resource, we love to see projects that inspire innovation in other local governments. Today, I chat with Michael Baskin who leads innovation for Montgomery County, Maryland about how they’re building what he calls a more human government.
Like Govlaunch, Michael is a believer in copying what works from others. In this episode, we’re taking a closer look at some of Montgomery County’s projects that have been inspired by others, proving that some great innovation can happen when leveraging resources already available. The best part? Nobody wasted time reinventing the wheel.
More info:
Featured government: Montgomery County, MD
Episode guests: Michael Baskin, CIO
Visit govlaunch.com for more stories and examples of local government innovation.
indsay: (00:05)
Welcome to the Govlaunch podcast. Govlaunch is the Wiki for local government innovation and on this podcast, we're sharing the stories of local government innovators and their efforts to build smarter governments. I'm Lindsay Pica-Alfano, co-founder of Govlaunch, and your host.
As we work with our community of local governments to build the largest free innovation resource, we love to see projects that inspire innovation in other local governments. Today, I chat with Michael Baskin who leads innovation for Montgomery County, Maryland, about how they're building what he calls a more human government. Like Govlaunch. Michael is a believer in copying what works from others. In this episode, we're taking a closer look at some of Montgomery county's projects that have been inspired by others, proving that some great innovation can happen when leveraging resources already available. The best part? Nobody wasted time reinventing the wheel. So now let's turn to Michael to talk about the exciting work underway in Montgomery County.
Michael, thanks so much for joining me today. Can you quickly introduce yourself and share a bit about your role?
Michael: (01:14)
Sure. Lindsay, thanks so much for having me. My name is Michael Baskin and I lead innovation for Montgomery County, Maryland. And my role is to serve as a resource and an advocate for those making things better, effective and efficient and equitable. We're growing governments’ ability to change behavior for better outcomes. We use a mix of methods really. So we do service design and behavioral uniformed nudging, and then we use tools from process improvement and liberating structures. So it's all about a more human and more helpful government for all.
Lindsay: (01:45)
Awesome. Well, we're excited to have you on the podcast today and we at Govlaunch are all about spreading innovative ideas and projects across local governments, specifically those who wouldn't have access to this kind of information otherwise. What would you say is innovation to you and your team in Montgomery County?
Michael: (02:04)
Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you. The idea of open access is something that I really love about Govlaunch. Innovation is for everyone. Innovation for us and for me is about making things better. It's as simple as that. So when someone finds a way to make it easier for a resident to get a permit, or redesigns door hangers to get residents better information about tree services, where reimagines recruiting to build a, a more diverse police force or finds a way to reduce printing on unnecessary forms, that's all innovation and that's all happening every day. And those are all real recent examples. And in Montgomery County our vision, um, for innovation is rooted in changing behavior to produce better outcomes for those we serve.
Lindsay: (02:48)
Can you share with me an example of something that you've copied or taken from somebody else to drive innovation in your county?
Michael: (02:57)
Uh, sure. One of my favorite memories of copying actually comes, when I used to lead innovation in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and we're up in Nashville, and we're there to check out their form based code and we block into their permanent center. We were like, Whoa, it looked like a grocery store. So there was aisle A, but so for like produce, it was for historic zoning and then aisle B, instead of for snacks and sweets was, um, was like the fire marshal. And we thought like, this was so great. So, um, we thought like we should go and copy it. So we called them back up. We said, well, how do we, how do we copy this? And they said, Oh, well, you can come up. But we sort of, we stole that from you. You guys have a one-stop shop.
And so Nashville had come and they had seen that we had taken all of the different departments that served permitting and building and plan development and put them in one building. And they had copied that, but when they copied it, they took the frontline representatives of all those departments and put them in one space for the customer. And then we went and we tried to recopy that from them. So they had copied something from us and in doing so had created something new. And that was a really magical moment. Another thing we copied was outcomes based budgeting. How do we make sure that every dollar is tied to an outcome and we had a stat team. So how do we make sure that, how do we know if we’re on track to be successful? Um, and we really want to know, how do we make things better now?
Michael: (04:22)
And we’ve experimented with different trainings and learnings, and finally, we got frustrated. We just copied. So we called up, um, Alyssa and Brian in Denver, we stole their peak Academy model and we literally took their PowerPoint deck, we put a white box over the word Denver, used all Denver examples and just ran with it. And over time we totally evolved it to be more of our own. And then Syracuse came down and copied it. And now that's a model that's spreading around the country and something we've evolved and adapted to Montgomery County too.
Lindsay: (04:51)
That's so great. We love this concept of stealing other people's great ideas and making it your own. What advice would you share with others in local government who are looking to take somebody else's good ideas like you have, or the programs they put in place and to really make them their own?
Michael: (05:05)
Lindsay, we really looked at organizations like yours and ELGL and Bloomberg Philanthropy, What Works Cities and Center for Civic Impact. And we find those who say, we're going to be a platform or in your case, a Wiki, but if that is going to reduce the friction to collaboration and to share it and access sort of to build that human connective tissue and those relationships that really allow the right people to connect to the right time on the right subjects. Um, and then to get concrete, we start small and scale, and that's our sort of a mantra that we have with innovation and our innovation community of Montgomery County, um, which is to not worry about getting it perfect the right time, to start just by copying it right off the bat, and then see what evolves from there.
We think of copying as a creative act. So when we copy, we create something new as we're creating from a different context and a different perspective, and we're painting on a different canvas. And it's one of the most beautiful aspects to me of working in local government, because there's so much room and so much willingness to share. And our guiding question is always, how might we enable others in government to discover for themselves better ways of doing things, and I'm going to reduce that friction or barriers to copying effectively. And we find that people, when you reach out are so excited to share, uh, because when we share with others, we've had Madison, Wisconsin come and take, uh, our innovation accelerator and participate in our community here in Montgomery County. And we know that when they steal it and they bring it back to Madison, Wisconsin, if they're going to iterate and create something beautiful and new, and we're going to get to copy that back to Montgomery County. And so what you reap is what you sow, what you said would really love that, um, that constructive and creative dialogue that comes from from pocket.
Lindsay: (06:51)
Yeah. Great. I would say there's a lot of different ways of collaborating with others in local government. I think the biggest barrier though, and perhaps you would agree, the fact that a lot of this isn't available digitally, I mean, you have to kind of know somebody in this space, you have to have a connection, or attend some sort of a conference, and be part of the inner circle to get these great insights. So trying to get more of this available on a digital platform is something that we're trying to work with governments to do.
Michael: (07:20)
But Lindsay, I think that that's something that you do and Govlaunch does particularly well. There's a difference in legacy organizations where they say, well, we're going to go out and we're going to research what everybody's doing. It's going to take a year or two years. We're going to put into a big fancy report that is meant to be accessible to everybody. And thus, maybe isn't accessible to anyone. And then we're going to share it back out. And the idea of the Wiki that underlies Govlaunch is, um, creating just enough of a connection to allow people to connect and to share around sort of core ideas and whys.
Lindsay: (07:51)
Yeah, the search functionality is key and something we've really been focused on. Obviously, it isn't going to always be as simple as copying somebody's idea, putting it in place and calling it a done deal. Um, do you have any warnings you would share with somebody looking to copy somebody else's work? Are there any potential drawbacks to this practice?
Michael: (08:10)
Sure. We try to copy really intentionally. In government we can become so enamored with how other sectors work or other folks are doing things. And there's so much we can learn from other sectors and other governments. And sometimes we borrow tools and ideas from around, you know, customers and metrics or human centered design and new Six Sigma tools that were all developed often in the private sector. And we have to recognize that those tools are imbued with values. So we're adopting tools from the private sector, how are we adapting those tools to public sector values of equity and justice in co-creation? And when we copy it's I think upon us to really ask what is brought into the world with these tools and how do we make sure that what we're bringing in and we think we face this mandate to make things better and our democracy depends on delivery. We have to deliver better, and we know that. And so we're grabbing every tool. We can, it takes a moment to pause and ask, what's coming with this tool, what values are coming with this tool? And are there ways that we can adapt the tool as well as adopt the tool to serve the purposes that we're trying to manifest.
Lindsay: (09:21)
I want to quickly go back to the accelerator example that you gave. For those who might want to copy this, can you explain what this is and how it works in a local government context?
Michael: (09:32)
Sure. So in Montgomery County, we have an innovation accelerator. The idea of being that we start slow and then accelerate rapidly with time. And really it's simple, it's an introduction to a structured problem solving process and it's an introduction to community. So the course is very, hands-on project based learning and innovation accelerators are participants. They identify some change they'd like to see, and then they'd practice a problem for bringing their improvements to life. And we sort of think we shaped the path by walking. So we say, why is change needed? What does our current state look like? What does our future state look like? Then we look at the gap between, um, and surface some assumptions. So it's about really rooting in our problem. It's really an introduction to structured problem solving, um, and instruction to community, which allows people to say I can make things better. Um, then there's others who can help me make things better as well.
Lindsay: (10:26)
I know a big component of Denver Peak Academy is the training and staff development, um, around this, I would assume this is a large component of your program as well.
Michael: (10:37)
We're really trying to get away from a training model because we've all been to trainings and you learn something and then you go back and nothing changes and we're actually changing behavior. And so, um, what we're doing is using a series of liberating structures of facilitation techniques that allow for self-organized learning and growth, where people are practicing a new way of solving problems, so that the next time they solve a problem, they have a new approach to solving the problem.
Lindsay: (11:07)
So obviously the accelerator program is a great idea in concept. Can you give a few examples of projects underway and how it's currently making things better in your county?
Michael: (11:19)
Sure, Lindsay, so, um, my favorite one is people are doing all sorts of things. Um, those examples I shared at the beginning, those are all real examples of innovation accelerators. People are taking driveway permit payments and putting them online. They are simplifying the leave request processes so employees can take the rest they need. They're improving the onboarding experience for new teammates. Some of my favorite ones are really small though. So Laura, who is in the human resources department, she was getting interrupted, which is so frustrating all day long when this doorbell would ring outside of their office. And the funny thing about this doorbell is that the door’s actually always unlocked the doorbell was unnecessary. And so after sort of doing a spaghetti diagram and seeing that change, she put a sticky note, she started small and she scaled. She put a sticky note over the doorbell that said the door is open and she got interrupted less and it was beautiful because it then created more space and more time for her and her department to scale up to bigger things. So Anita in her department, in the training department, they were having about 20,000 pieces of paper a year that were going to course evaluations. And that was about 400 hours. So someone would do a course, you fill out a paper course evaluation. And then someone on her team was spending 400 hours a year entering that information into a database. By the time it was entered. It wasn't even useful anymore to course trainers. And so it sounds like, you know, there's like airing our dirty laundry. That's often what it takes to admit that our current process isn't working, they've been doing this for years and within a month of participating in the accelerator Anita had saved that 20,000 pieces paper she'd started small with a prototype.
Michael: (13:03)
And now she has a totally online digital way of collecting course evaluations. So those are two really small examples, but the reason we start with those small examples is because we believe that that is how we're going to snowball into something better. And so there might be this idea that, well, you know, the way we got into the mess that we're in, in government with all this red tape, is there is a great blue ribbon or red ribbon commission. And then we all sat in a room. We create this giant plan for how we're going to make government slow and inefficient and miserable. And then we launched this big plan. It was great. Everything was slow and inefficient and miserable. And of course that's not how it happened, it was lots of well-intentioned people doing lots of small things and eventually it snowballed into the mess we're in now.
And so the best way to get out of that mess is to start really small and just scale and to snowball all those small changes until we build into something better. And when we do it that way, we create space for learning as we go. Um, and we say we sort of, we're building a culture of innovation that that culture is built in action. And so we're when we're taking those small actions like Lauren and like Anita, those are the actions that then show a different way of doing things and create more space and more time for bigger and bigger innovations to come.
Lindsay: (14:17)
Yeah. The examples that you gave, I think everybody listening is probably banging their heads against their desk going, this sounds exactly like my life too. I've heard it from the largest to the smallest local governments around the world at this point. If anything, it should be encouraging to everybody. There's a lot of room for improvement, uh, in processes and moving more digitally and thinking more creatively. So great work, what you guys are doing with the accelerator program and more beyond the accelerator program. I think that's one project, but really shows the culture that you're establishing of innovation like you talked about. I think people would look at this project like an accelerator and go, well, geez, we don't have time to do something like that. I don't have time throughout my day to have staff coming in and learning specific skill sets and being thrown into a different type of team to solve a problem. Um, what advice would you share with, with some of these, um, folks perhaps how you approach this from a time management perspective in your own county?
Michael: (15:15)
Lindsay, it's a, it's a great question. So what is their welcome to copy ours or copy someone else's doing something similar. They don't need to recreate the wheel. And that's how we got started ourselves. What makes it real for other people in local government is what is when you're practicing what you're preaching. And so if you feel like you don't have time, which is what everyone raises their hand says, I don't have time to make things better. We don't have time to not make things better.
And the way to do it is to start with something that is eating up a lot of your time, like what Laura was eating up her time, or Anita was eating up 400 hours of their time, right. Just processing these forms. And they started with what was a thorn in their side, but when they eliminated it, they freed up just a little bit more time, which then for Anita allowed her to launch this aspiring leaders program and then a mentoring program. So these all these big things that she never had time to do before, but by starting small with the thorns in her side, by practicing these very tools of making waste and other things that are invisible by making them visible, um, she then was able to create the space to go and do more. So if you think you can't that you're in the bucket of so many of the rest of us. Um, and the answer is you can just start small and scale.
Lindsay: (16:25)
Yeah. It's brilliant. I know you're a big proponent of more human government. Can you explain what that is and how other local governments should be more focused on this as well?
Michael: (16:38)
Sure. Those we serve, whether we call them our customers or their citizens with a small set of residents, don't want to be seen as just another number in line to be reduced down to the information they fill out in a form. And those of us in government, we feel the same way, right? There is a person on the other side of that form of that process, of that phone, of that service counter. And so how might we find ways and structures that allow us to see each other as the humans we are, to recognize that common humanity, and help each other solve common problems because our democracy depends on delivery. Our legitimacy and local government depends on the trust between government and communities built in action and in outcomes and procedural justice and in justice of outcomes and to deliver better. We really have to find better ways of doing things.
Michael: (17:27)
We have to change our behaviors and we have to, to innovate. And a lot of that starts with recognizing each person in government as a human. Um, and there's a beautiful quote that inspires me here from Fred Laloux and reinventing orgs. And he says, as human beings, we are not problems waiting to be solved, but potential waiting time unfold. And so, um, how do we see that humanity and others and recognize where the processes or the systems we put ourselves in, um, limit that humanity and restrict that humidity and reduce that humidity.
Lindsay: (18:01)
So specifically creating a more human government, uh, internally, how do you handle this internally with your staff to begin?
Michael: (18:09)
Yeah, this is about recognizing that despite any hierarchy structure, um, that people, um, that are just simply recognizing and helping them to recognize in themselves the power that they have as humans and in seeing them as such. And, and this starts with recognizing that. So often we have people who think they are stuck in awful processes and awful systems and the best people to fix those processes and to fix those systems is the people in those processes and systems themselves. And the question is how do we give them the tools and the space to make those fixes. We practice empathy as a skill and an empathy as a skill that we build in action, uh, by observing and finding ways to put ourselves in others.
So we were working with the human resources team and, um, we, we know that we have a huge opportunity as so many governments do, right? A massive number of employees are going to retire very soon. So we have an incredible opportunity to remake government HR and their hiring can literally change our government. And we know that the way that our, we currently, um, hire people, doesn't see people as people, um, it doesn't work. And so the first thing that we did was we had the human resource team go and apply for jobs at other organizations to go through and see that experience themselves. And then to watch people applying for jobs in our organization, and to actually see what is the experience like of applying to a job in our organization. And it's one way that we sort of center humans and what we do.
Lindsay: (19:36)
Wow. That's a fantastic example. Um, and very creative. So I, what I love talking to you about today is that we haven't talked about technology once. And so many of the people driving innovation and local governments are very technology focused and yes, there are great technologies out there that are going to help you, uh, you know, deliver more digital services to your citizens, work more efficiently internally. Um, the list goes on, it really comes down to the fundamentals of looking hard at the processes in place and the inefficiencies and how do you get your teams working together? My background is in people management and process flow management. So it really excites me when I get somebody like you to talk about how you're really focused on your people internally and empowering them and giving them space to be innovators, and breaking down some of these barriers to innovation and making improvements to the process. So for other local governments that may be a little bit dismissive of these, because honestly, I think you and I would agree this is where the hard work is. What would you say to them to really encourage others and local government to not overlook the importance of these processes and working on the culture of innovation internally?
Michael: (20:57)
Sure. I mean, these are the processes that we live in. They literally shape our lives in local government. And so we ignore them at our own peril. And I think I'd answer your question Lindsay first by thinking about technology. And second, by looking at those, um, like San Francisco's digital services team, that UK digital service team who are doing technology really well and looking at how they have shifted their mindset. So first let's look at technology. We have some really great technology and we would love to buy it. Well, first that means we have to get into the budget, right. And that was submitted through a budget process. Then the budget goes through and then we have to get through our procurement systems and we don't have really great challenge-based procurement systems.
Michael: (21:41)
And so by the time we get this technology, um, we then need someone to implement it, right. We have all in government seen technology projects that don't get fully implemented, and then we'd go on to buying the next one. So technology we actually see can often be a great barrier, even though it can be a great enabler. It can be a great barrier when it comes to change, because it's going to take so long for us to get there that we sometimes ignore the more obvious solutions first, um, and is by rooting those more obvious solutions that we can learn more about our problem, which enables us then to maybe down the future, go and get, or build better technology. So one we see as technology can be the greatest barrier to change because it's the most obvious solution. Um, it stops us from really deeply rooting in our problem and understanding what it is that we're solving for.
And the second way is to look at technology is, is really when I look at some of the technology leaders out there, um, who are doing digital government well. They're recognizing, articulating more and more that this is about brooding and what people actually need. We start in the technology road, we start with, um, user personas and we start with good design research and we start with, um, customer journey maps and service blueprints, and all of that is about rooting in the people we're trying to serve and what they need and how they're going to uncover it before, uh, writing a single line of code. Often in government, we'll go and we'll try to go and buy a piece, big piece of technology. When will, we might need to do is understand better who it is we're trying to serve and what they need.
Lindsay: (23:15)
Yeah. And I think that advice is applicable to anyone in local government. The struggle is consistent across the board, uh, with the speed at which they implement technology. The hurdles to getting new technology into the end zone are very high. And so technology is moving so fast, you know, as a technology leader, it's terrifying how fast technology is moving. So to think it might take 18 months before you can actually get anything in front of your citizens that you're buying today should make everybody a little bit nervous.
Michael: (23:47)
I think it's just a reminder not to lead with technology, right, but to lead with the humans in front of us and their needs and their stories and what they're trying to achieve, and then to find as many ways as possible to help them get to the outcome they want. And so often that is technology. Uh, we just don't want to lead with technology. We want to lead with that human and what it is that they're seeking to achieve.
Lindsay: (24:09)
Well, thanks so much for that explanation. What is something that excites you about the future of Montgomery County or the public sector more generally?
Michael: (24:17)
I think there's a great normalizing of this conversation about the need to make things better. And what makes me most excited is the people I work with. And there are so many incredible leaders, um, all throughout the organization in the most unexpected spots who are learning on their own, there are so many resources out there to learn and to try, and we're really making things better for those we serve. And that's a constant source of inspiration. And we begin to see more and more networks that allow these people to connect with each other and to gain inspiration from each other. And that inspires me and this is why I do my job every day.
Lindsay: (24:55)
Well, thanks so much for joining us today, Michael, we appreciate your insights and you giving us real world examples of the power of information sharing across local governments. We love what you're doing. So keep up the exciting work and thank you again for being here.
Michael: (25:08)
Thank you, Lindsay, and thanks for, for creating the gov launch community and Wikipedia. So for, we can all learn from each other.
Lindsay: (25:23)
Today, we broke down some simple initiatives that had a positive impact on staff productivity and likely morale. A common theme we’re hearing from local government innovators is to start small - start with the thorn in your side, as Michael calls it. Focusing on these seemingly small things can collectively have a big impact on efforts to break down the bureaucracy and clunky processes that have been built up over time.
I’m Lindsay Pica-Alfano, and this podcast was produced by Govlaunch, the wiki for local government innovation. You can subscribe and hear more stories like this wherever you get your podcasts.
If you’re a local government innovator, we hope you’ll help us on our mission to build the largest free resource for local governments globally.
You can join to search and contribute to the wiki at govlaunch.com. Thanks for tuning in. We hope to see you next time on the Govlaunch Podcast.